2010 Retreat
Numinous 247 FAQ
Below you will find a list of common questions that are asked. Click on the question and it will take you to the answer.

So you guys are Christians?

Yes, absolutely.
But that word has a lot of baggage, so let’s get more specific. You guys believe Jesus Christ was the only Son of God?

Yes, not only that He was God’s only son (John 3:16) but that He came in order to set humans right with God.
And God, you believe He is the only God?

Correct - He is the Creator, the Sustainer, the Wholly Other, the Eternal One. He is the same God that appeared to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who spoke to Moses and Joshua, who brought the children of Israel into the Promised Land.
The Trinity - believe in that too?

Yes. The Holy Spirit is the third member of the Trinity and He is Who empowers us to live.
So, exactly how do you know all that?

We believe that the Bible, comprised of both the Ancient Jewish writings they call The Tanakh (The Written Torah) and the writings of the followers of Jesus, called The New Testament. Christians renamed The Tanakh as the Old Testament. We believe that the Bible is the most historically accurate collection of writings in antiquity. We believe that the Bible represents God’s communication to people, for all times and is authoritative for our lives today.
What is all this stuff about community?

We believe that community is a good expression for what Jesus describes as the mission of the church.
What is the mission of the church?

Jesus lays it out in his last words in life before the cross when he gives his disciples a “new command” and that was to “love one another as I have loved you.” Note this is NOT the golden rule of how to treat all people, but rather a command for those who claim to follow him, Christians. He adds to this in his final prayer (John 17) when he prays for all believers to come after the disciples and he prays a solitary thing---that they would be unified. This concept of “love one another” PLUS “unity” is what we then express in the concept of community.
But wait a minute! What about all those churches who say the Great Commission is the mission of the church?

True, Jesus words as recorded in Matthew 28:18-20 are obviously important. So is Luke’s rendering of it in Acts 1:8. But note the context and direction of the command---that command is given to every individual. “You,” and you alone if every other person bails, are responsible for this command to go out to others. But note this does not really relate to our existence together. The new command of John 13:33-34 remains and informs us as to how we, as a group, are to exist.
Huh? I don’t get this. I thought the church was some business that was, well, in the business of telling others about Jesus?

Not really, not if Jesus is to be believed. The concept of church must be explained first though for this to make sense.
OK, so what is the church?

The word church is a poor translation of the Greek word ekklesia (ecclesia). That words means "called out ones." Tyndale in his translation of the Bible into English in 1534 used the better word "congregation." That gets at the idea. It is, in one sense, merely a plural of Christian. A single believer would be, then, a Christian. More than one believer would be ekklesia, congregation or church. Thus, church is merely a state of being.
I thought church was something you joined or belonged to?

No, according to the Ancient Writings, it is a state of being. You can’t be a Christian and not be church. You either are or you are not. To claim to be a Christian and yet not be active within the body (another synonym for church) is to be confused about your state of existence. Of course in the ancient days, it was much easier as a town would only have a few Christians. In our modern world, we are dealing with the confusion of multiple organizations claiming multiple strands of one truth and forcing the Christian to choose a place or location. While that is another issue, the bottom line is that church is not something you can join or leave.
So, I don’t have to belong to a church? I think I may like this.

Well, some theologians of the so-called "Emerging Church" movement would agree with you, but we do not. Though confusion does reign with the multiplicity of groups, the bottom line remains and you need to find a family of friends (a term we use for "church") and belong. Yes you need God to guide you to a family that fits and there can be issues within, but we must move beyond this idea that we can join or leave. That makes us mere consumers and the idea of church into nothing more than an institution.
But it is an institution!

Not in our world, not in our beliefs! And that is a big part of why we exist, to say "It is not supposed to be this way, so let’s stop saying it is this way." That falls on my shoulders as an individual, to connect deeply into the community and give my life, my time and my effort to the body.
And you think this idea is somewhere in the Bible?

Yes, when you consider the first 7 chapters of Acts, you see a very detailed picture of the early church. While certainly we agree that much has changed over the last 2000 years, we believe that we can mimic what the earliest Christians, church, did. In fact, we believe that they would have had the very best connection to what Jesus actually wanted. And when you consider his command in John 13 & 17, and then remember that the early church was led by the people who would have heard his command a mere 40+ days before, then they would have had the best understanding of how to live it out. What you see is clear---they invested in one another, they were together often, they ate meals together, they were in each other’s homes, they shared their resources, they prayed together, they worshipped together and they suffered together. Rarely do you see that in any modern church today where it is like a somewhat sterile business
So how does all of that related back to the Great Commission?

We believe that Jesus gave a mission, direction, to the group, what today is called the church and that mission was simple and direct - love one another as Jesus had loved the disciples (the prayer for unity is implied in that, but also clearly important to Him). But with BOTH aspects of the mission (love + unity) Jesus spoke of a promise. Both promises tie back into the aspect of evangelism or missions. If we love one another as He loved us, then the world will know we are his disciples. If we are unified, then the world will know (understand, agree, accept) that Jesus came from God. This is HUGE in accomplishing the individual task of the Great Commission.
So, we need the church to be on task in order for the Great Commission to be accomplished?

That’s right, but not "on task" as is commonly assumed. What most end up proclaiming is that "the church" needs to do more outreach or more missions. No! What the church needs to do is love one another and be unified. Period! In doing so, that empowers the individual Christian to accomplish his individual purpose.
Are you talking about the meaning of life?

Well, that’s a bit of a stretch there, but you are in the right ballpark. According to the Ancient Writings, the overall purpose of life and thus all people (certainly including Christians) is the glory of God. God’s glory is paramount.
Seems a bit grandiose doesn’t it?

For humans yes, but for the Eternal One, it is entirely appropriate for Him to desire what is best in the Universe and what is best IS God and thus reflecting His glory back is appropriate. In fact, throughout the world, creation, nature, even humans, you see this principle.
So humans fit in only as pawns to kneel and genuflect to Him?

Well, we believe there is actually more for Humans. We are taught (and believe) that each individual Christian has a directing goal and that is to become like Jesus. Of course this is tied back into the purpose of life. For us to accurately and properly give God glory, we can do that best when we are in right relationship with Him. And, as stated above, we believe that happens through Jesus, as we become like Him.
So, how is that related to what I’m supposed to do or be?

Our goal is, as stated, to become like Jesus so we can accomplish our purpose (to glorify God). That is what we are to be. But doing is something else; for that we see that we have been given a mission. We’ve already mentioned the Great Commission, but you can even more directly see the aspect of the individual mission in places like II Corinthians 5 or Matthew 5. We have a mission and that is to be God’s representative here.
Mission, Goal, Purpose - aren’t those all the same words?

Not really. Look at it this way - my purpose gets into the core of my being and that is, as stated, to glorify God. But how can I accomplish my purpose and find that sense of completeness or satisfaction? Well, by pursuing the goal of the refining work of God on me - to become more like Jesus (Philippians 2 presents a clear picture of this), I find myself finally able to accomplish my purpose, to glorify God accurately, best. Then, I have the strength and ability to act on my mission in life, to represent God to others. And for what point? In order to help them to understand their purpose in life.
What is up with that name?

Our founder, Carl Creasman, first saw the work while reading C. S. Lewis’ classic work "The Problem of Pain." Lewis begins unpacking his theology of pain by explaining the concept of The Numinous. Here’s how he says it:
    Those who have not met this term may be introduced to it by the following device. Suppose you were told there was a tiger in the next room: you would know that you were in danger and would probably feel fear. But if you were told ‘There is a ghost in the next room’, and believe it, you would feel, indeed, what is often called fear, but of a different kind. It would not be based on the knowledge of danger, for on one is primarily afraid of what a ghost may do to him, but of the mere fact that it is a ghost. It is ‘uncanny’ rather than dangerous, and the special kind of fear it excites may be called Dread. With the Uncanny one has reached the fringes of the Numinous. Now suppose that you were told simply “There is a mighty spirit in the room’, and believe it. Your feelings would then be even less like the mere fear of danger: but the substance would be profound. You would feel wonder and a certain shrinking - a sense of inadequacy to cope with such a visitant and of prostration before it - an emotion which might be expressed in Shakespeare’s words "Under it my genius is rebuked." This feeling may be described as awe, and the object which excites it as the Numinous. (The Problem of Pain, pp. 5-6)
If you still feel lost, then consider this idea from another Lewis work, "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe." In there, the central figure representing Jesus is the lion Aslan. One of the children who stumbles into the world is being told about Aslan by another set of characters.
    "Is - is he a man?" asked Lucy.

    "Aslan a man?" said Mr. Beaver sternly. "Certainly not. I tell you he is the King of the wood and the son of the great Emperor-beyond-the-sea. Don't you know who is the King of Beasts? Aslan is a lion - the Lion, the great Lion."

    "Ooh!" said Susan, "I'd thought he was a man. Is he - quite safe? I shall feel rather nervous about meeting a lion."

    "That you will, dearie, and make no mistake," said Mrs. Beaver; "if there's anyone who can appear before Aslan without their knees knocking, they're either braver than most or else just silly."

    "Then he isn't safe?" asked Lucy.

    "Safe?" said Mr. Beaver; "don't you hear what Mrs. Beaver tells you? Who said anything about safe? ‘Course he isn't safe. But he's good. He's the King, I tell you."
The Eternal One is like that - not safe but good ("the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" Ps 111:10; Prov 9:10). To be in His presence is to experience The Numinous.
OK, so that’s neat but what does that really have to do with a church?

Well, when Carl and Kim Creasman felt called by God out of their traditional church for a new work, the focus at the start was more on Carl’s ministry as a communicator (you can find out more at www.numinousinc.com). They both felt that their target audience was the young adult population commonly called Generation X (roughly 20-42 years of age as of 2005). The reason the word numinous and this generation connected for Carl was that in many ways, Generation X members fall far out of the traditional circle of church members. In many ways, the classic Gen X’er has been excluded from God and there is often an attitude towards them that they are beyond God. Yet for Carl, the Spirit of God was just as much in this generation as any other and in fact, this generation has perhaps a deeper spiritual hunger than others. The evidence of Numinous was, for Carl, all around them.
Please explain that logo? Is that a sword going through the cross?

Ancient images from Celtic (pronounced "kel-tic") and Scottish roots have long interested us. On our most recent trip to Scotland, we returned with two strong images that we felt represented what Numinous was trying to present. The icon represents a joining together of those two images, the sword laid over the cross.

The first image is that of a Celtic cross, the cross of St. John of Iona. Taking a familiar Celtic pose with the unending circle surrounding the cross of Jesus Christ, this cross stood at the West entrance to Iona Cathedral until the Tenth Century. The second image is the sword of William Wallace, Scottish hero (and probably a GenX'er). Wallace was immortalized in the recent film Braveheart. Of his many reasons for rebelling against the status quo, Wallace was driven by the desire for a freedom to be who he wanted to be. He also was willing to die for his people which was a strong connection for Carl back to Jesus. Obviously, the sword also has reference in the Ancient Texts (sword of the spirit, Word of God as a sword).

Both of these images represent the ideals of Numinous, the idea of a spiritual supernatural presence (the cross) in the midst of an unfriendly world (the sword).
Are there other things we should know about?

We have many things that we value. You can read the core of that at the Values page. But here’s a short list beyond what we’ve already mentioned for the curious:
  • Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and that no one comes to God except through a relationship with Jesus
  • The Holy Spirit is a critical person of the Trinity and is Who empowers us to live.
  • Community is being the church.
  • We were created for a relationship with God and others
  • "Church" is NOT a place you go; it’s a state of being, its something YOU ARE!
  • Church should be a spiritual experience of community in a 21st century post-modern world, based on 1st century examples and documents
  • Integrity (both with self and others) matters
  • Thinking "outside the box" is the only way to think
  • Excellence is worth the price
  • We should set the pace and be ahead of culture
  • Acceptance of ourselves, others, and those who think differently than we do is critical to community
  • Devotion to one another is a command, not an option
  • It’s not about being right—it’s about being Biblical!
  • Simple living is core to community and self-health.
  • The search for the "elusive IT" will kill us, thus we want to embrace each day, each person, each moment for it’s own worth.
So you people want to form a big old church, big buildings with lots of people?

Actually, it’s almost the opposite of that. Carl has said, "we're not about growing a great, big organization; we're about growing great, deep spiritual people." We want to keep it simple; keep it about people.
Sounds like another "new hip thing" for churches to try.

We don’t mean it that way. We think we are finding an old way that has long ago been abandoned for various reasons. Let’s just focus on the few things Jesus said we were to do (love one another, be unified) and stop there. Anything else starts to complicate the picture and causes us to lose our focus.
Is it easy to do?

No! This is the hard way, the narrow way. It is the way that gets your hands dirty in the lives of others. One of our elders has described it this way: "what I know of bi-polar medicine is that it basically calms everything out, removes the highs and the lows. You know, that's basically how normal church is--no real highs, no real lows, just existing, everyone with a simple plastic smile and everything seems okay. You know, I'm glad our church, our experience isn't on that drug. We are getting the major euphoria and the major downers, almost on the same day, but you know, it makes me feel alive. Like this is real. Real people, real issues." And sometimes that is exhausting, working with people, but it is also very real.